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	<title>Comments on: Budgeting over the brink</title>
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	<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/</link>
	<description>Politics, Kildare, Work and Play!</description>
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		<title>By: Mark Kearney</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Kearney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Nov 2008 14:45:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-340</guid>
		<description>Jimmy,

I had a mickey fit, been meaning to give you a buzz on this one. I started out thinking I couldn&#039;t believe a party (specially FF) could make such bad &#039;political&#039; choices, robbing old ladies, screw the kids etc. Then I thought, mmm, sideshow. Yeah it&#039;s the old cynic in me, throw in a couple of &#039;negotiables&#039;, row back when the shit hits the fan get the rest of the budget in. Everyone is moaning about the wrong things. What got us into this shit heap in the first place. Personally, I would have put a uniform on, nationalized the banks (sell em back out in 3 years) taken their profits ( 6b a year) and done a &#039;New Deal&#039; for the Republic, but then I&#039;ve been off the pills for a bit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy,</p>
<p>I had a mickey fit, been meaning to give you a buzz on this one. I started out thinking I couldn&#8217;t believe a party (specially FF) could make such bad &#8216;political&#8217; choices, robbing old ladies, screw the kids etc. Then I thought, mmm, sideshow. Yeah it&#8217;s the old cynic in me, throw in a couple of &#8216;negotiables&#8217;, row back when the shit hits the fan get the rest of the budget in. Everyone is moaning about the wrong things. What got us into this shit heap in the first place. Personally, I would have put a uniform on, nationalized the banks (sell em back out in 3 years) taken their profits ( 6b a year) and done a &#8216;New Deal&#8217; for the Republic, but then I&#8217;ve been off the pills for a bit.</p>
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		<title>By: FF Councillors &#38; the medical cards - is there a co-ordinated response underway? - Politics.ie</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-324</link>
		<dc:creator>FF Councillors &#38; the medical cards - is there a co-ordinated response underway? - Politics.ie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 10:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-324</guid>
		<description>[...] week people were furious - and about time they stood up and were counted.  Have discussed this here View from the Tracks Blog Archive Budgeting over the brink [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week people were furious &#8211; and about time they stood up and were counted.  Have discussed this here View from the Tracks Blog Archive Budgeting over the brink [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh J. Conaghan</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-322</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh J. Conaghan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 14:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-322</guid>
		<description>Hi James,

Let there be no doubt that this past week has been one of the toughest for our party since I can remember.I have the greatest admiration for the leadership of the party however if there is one lesson to be learnt from this debacale it is that the leadership should listen more carefully to us the grassroots members.
Only by doing this can they keep their fingers on the pulse of the nation and bring Fianna Fáil back to its members all of whom have the wellbeing of the Irish people at heart.We must never forget that we are a rebublican party and that we will only remain republican by refusing to lose touch with the people on ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi James,</p>
<p>Let there be no doubt that this past week has been one of the toughest for our party since I can remember.I have the greatest admiration for the leadership of the party however if there is one lesson to be learnt from this debacale it is that the leadership should listen more carefully to us the grassroots members.<br />
Only by doing this can they keep their fingers on the pulse of the nation and bring Fianna Fáil back to its members all of whom have the wellbeing of the Irish people at heart.We must never forget that we are a rebublican party and that we will only remain republican by refusing to lose touch with the people on ground.</p>
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		<title>By: James Lawless</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-317</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lawless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 20:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-317</guid>
		<description>Hi Claire, thanks for the comment, I&#039;m not sure I see a whole lot of victory going on here either, in fact I think it&#039;s been one of the worst weeks in the party&#039;s history.. I may take some solace from the fact that the grass roots are finally finding voice but the mood at present is pretty far from celebratory..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Claire, thanks for the comment, I&#8217;m not sure I see a whole lot of victory going on here either, in fact I think it&#8217;s been one of the worst weeks in the party&#8217;s history.. I may take some solace from the fact that the grass roots are finally finding voice but the mood at present is pretty far from celebratory..</p>
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		<title>By: Claire O'Brien</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-316</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire O'Brien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-316</guid>
		<description>Hello James, 

Joe Behan left Fianna Fáíl on principle - a principle he failed to discuss with his party leader before he left. . I&#039;m not sure that such an action merits great praise. While I&#039;m loathe to agree with comments made yesterday by Dick Roche on The Wide Angle yesterday morning that it&#039;s better to stay in and effect change from within, one would like to think that at least, Joe Behan had tried to do that. So rather than being heroic, he seems to me at least, to have acted out of a lack of courage rather than the courage of his convictions. It smacks, if you like ,of the best boy in the class tattling at home about his schoolfriends, rather than telling the principal. 
Speaking of Dick Roche makes me wonder if the movement of Fianna Fáil so far away from what some of the grassroots members like you and Joe Behan espouse as true party principles is not unlike the movement of the EU Commission and to a lesser extent the Parliament, away from the people they purport to represent. Interestingly, both regularly hear the criticism that they are in the pockets of powerful lobbies. 
You say that the school building programme continues and on the face of it, the protection of at least that aspect of the education system would seem meritorious. But there is a context to this and that is the fact that many schools in recent months had their contracts stalled, the Summer Works Project, which would have seen many important jobs done in schools over the holidays, was cancelled without warning -after schools had invested in the preparatory work with engineers, architects and others. It casts doubt in my mind over the legitimacy of this apparently bountiful gesture of the Minister. 
I also can&#039;t quite marry comments from the Taoiseach that this budget is allowing us to be ready for the upturn when it occurs when the removal of teachers from classes, of language teachers from students who will be immediately disenfranchised through their state sponsored inability to communicate and keep up effectively, of the farm retirement and installation aid programmes all are measures designed to halt progress in the way we deal with some of our vital resources. Our chief indigenous industry and the future workforce of all industries and services have been dealt a series of debilitating blows. 

The part of me that accepts that changes and cuts are necessary is the same part that revolts against their absolutely random and unfair nature. 

In other words, James, I&#039;m not sure that I see the grounds for any kind of moral victory to be plucked from the jaws of this monumental defeat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello James, </p>
<p>Joe Behan left Fianna Fáíl on principle &#8211; a principle he failed to discuss with his party leader before he left. . I&#8217;m not sure that such an action merits great praise. While I&#8217;m loathe to agree with comments made yesterday by Dick Roche on The Wide Angle yesterday morning that it&#8217;s better to stay in and effect change from within, one would like to think that at least, Joe Behan had tried to do that. So rather than being heroic, he seems to me at least, to have acted out of a lack of courage rather than the courage of his convictions. It smacks, if you like ,of the best boy in the class tattling at home about his schoolfriends, rather than telling the principal.<br />
Speaking of Dick Roche makes me wonder if the movement of Fianna Fáil so far away from what some of the grassroots members like you and Joe Behan espouse as true party principles is not unlike the movement of the EU Commission and to a lesser extent the Parliament, away from the people they purport to represent. Interestingly, both regularly hear the criticism that they are in the pockets of powerful lobbies.<br />
You say that the school building programme continues and on the face of it, the protection of at least that aspect of the education system would seem meritorious. But there is a context to this and that is the fact that many schools in recent months had their contracts stalled, the Summer Works Project, which would have seen many important jobs done in schools over the holidays, was cancelled without warning -after schools had invested in the preparatory work with engineers, architects and others. It casts doubt in my mind over the legitimacy of this apparently bountiful gesture of the Minister.<br />
I also can&#8217;t quite marry comments from the Taoiseach that this budget is allowing us to be ready for the upturn when it occurs when the removal of teachers from classes, of language teachers from students who will be immediately disenfranchised through their state sponsored inability to communicate and keep up effectively, of the farm retirement and installation aid programmes all are measures designed to halt progress in the way we deal with some of our vital resources. Our chief indigenous industry and the future workforce of all industries and services have been dealt a series of debilitating blows. </p>
<p>The part of me that accepts that changes and cuts are necessary is the same part that revolts against their absolutely random and unfair nature. </p>
<p>In other words, James, I&#8217;m not sure that I see the grounds for any kind of moral victory to be plucked from the jaws of this monumental defeat.</p>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-315</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-315</guid>
		<description>Your post is good but I think the government are entitled to take the medical card away from the rich, they shouldn&#039;t have got it in the first place, also the doctors are screwing the tax payer by hiding behind the medical card.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your post is good but I think the government are entitled to take the medical card away from the rich, they shouldn&#8217;t have got it in the first place, also the doctors are screwing the tax payer by hiding behind the medical card.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-314</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-314</guid>
		<description>Very balanced and reasoned and impassioned piece</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very balanced and reasoned and impassioned piece</p>
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		<title>By: James Lawless</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-311</link>
		<dc:creator>James Lawless</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 12:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-311</guid>
		<description>Hi Conor, thanks for your comments, re your own educational experience with high class ratios etc (and I know you now to be a man of letters !) , I take the point, I got 5 &#039;A&#039;s out of a christian brothers with leaky prefabs myself, however I would like to think we&#039;ve advanced in the intervening twenty years and it&#039;s not what I want for my own children. Thankfully the school building programme does continue, particularly at local level, but there are real concerns on the other issues.

Re the EU debt ratios, one international commentator recently said &quot;the first member state to throw EU ratios out the window will be the first to climb out of recession&quot;... I think our Sallins man in Brussels would hardly demur..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Conor, thanks for your comments, re your own educational experience with high class ratios etc (and I know you now to be a man of letters !) , I take the point, I got 5 &#8216;A&#8217;s out of a christian brothers with leaky prefabs myself, however I would like to think we&#8217;ve advanced in the intervening twenty years and it&#8217;s not what I want for my own children. Thankfully the school building programme does continue, particularly at local level, but there are real concerns on the other issues.</p>
<p>Re the EU debt ratios, one international commentator recently said &#8220;the first member state to throw EU ratios out the window will be the first to climb out of recession&#8221;&#8230; I think our Sallins man in Brussels would hardly demur..</p>
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		<title>By: Conor</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-308</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 11:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-308</guid>
		<description>I might also add:

The EU guideline regarding the 3% public deficit can be breached in times of recession, however, there is another guideline on total Government debt.  If it breaches 60% of GDP, then we could be in big trouble.  Not for breaching the 60%, but for going from 30% to 60%+ so rapidly.

This leads me to think that there are going to be alot of tougher budgets down the line.

Sacrifices are going to have to be made, and sadly, nobody will like them.  If we want European levels of public services, we need to pay European levels of taxes.  At the moment, we are paying low taxes, relative to our neighbours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might also add:</p>
<p>The EU guideline regarding the 3% public deficit can be breached in times of recession, however, there is another guideline on total Government debt.  If it breaches 60% of GDP, then we could be in big trouble.  Not for breaching the 60%, but for going from 30% to 60%+ so rapidly.</p>
<p>This leads me to think that there are going to be alot of tougher budgets down the line.</p>
<p>Sacrifices are going to have to be made, and sadly, nobody will like them.  If we want European levels of public services, we need to pay European levels of taxes.  At the moment, we are paying low taxes, relative to our neighbours.</p>
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		<title>By: Conor</title>
		<link>http://jameslawless.ie/2008/10/17/budgeting-over-the-brink/comment-page-1/#comment-307</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 09:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jameslawless.ie/?p=213#comment-307</guid>
		<description>The cuts in education are overshadowing the fact that education got a handsome 8.9% increase in its budget.  Approx. €650m is going into science promotion, 3rd &amp; 4th levels and regualr schooling.  This was the 2nd biggest departmental increase, Social Welfare got the biggest.

The teacher-student ratio is going to go from 1:27 to 1:28, but Ireland has got where it is on high teacher-student ratios.  I got my education (and pretty much everyone else in the country) on higher ratios than this.

The FG &amp; Labour PR teams had cleverly picked the most sensitive issues to get the mass media to put as much pressure on FF, and thus dictate public opinion.  It worked.  Some FF TDs cracked under the pressure.

If FF are too &quot;top-heavy&quot;, then the grass roots need to get together with the ministers and iron this out - behind closed doors.

As for the budget as a whole, it managed to knock 2% off the deficit.  Another 3 or 4 similar budgets should haul it back to within EU guidlines, i.e. less than -3%.

The over-65s have benefitted from 22 successive budgets.  So have the low paid.  That goes all the way back to the 80s.  Then, one hard budget, and FF TDs start panicing, namely Joe Behan.

FG/Lab along with RTE and Irish Times have scored a point against FF.  Let&#039;s not let them score any more.  Solidarity within the party is needed and trust in Cowen and Lenihan.  At the end of the day, it&#039;s not the FF TDs putting their neck on the line, it&#039;s Cowen and Lenihan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cuts in education are overshadowing the fact that education got a handsome 8.9% increase in its budget.  Approx. €650m is going into science promotion, 3rd &amp; 4th levels and regualr schooling.  This was the 2nd biggest departmental increase, Social Welfare got the biggest.</p>
<p>The teacher-student ratio is going to go from 1:27 to 1:28, but Ireland has got where it is on high teacher-student ratios.  I got my education (and pretty much everyone else in the country) on higher ratios than this.</p>
<p>The FG &amp; Labour PR teams had cleverly picked the most sensitive issues to get the mass media to put as much pressure on FF, and thus dictate public opinion.  It worked.  Some FF TDs cracked under the pressure.</p>
<p>If FF are too &#8220;top-heavy&#8221;, then the grass roots need to get together with the ministers and iron this out &#8211; behind closed doors.</p>
<p>As for the budget as a whole, it managed to knock 2% off the deficit.  Another 3 or 4 similar budgets should haul it back to within EU guidlines, i.e. less than -3%.</p>
<p>The over-65s have benefitted from 22 successive budgets.  So have the low paid.  That goes all the way back to the 80s.  Then, one hard budget, and FF TDs start panicing, namely Joe Behan.</p>
<p>FG/Lab along with RTE and Irish Times have scored a point against FF.  Let&#8217;s not let them score any more.  Solidarity within the party is needed and trust in Cowen and Lenihan.  At the end of the day, it&#8217;s not the FF TDs putting their neck on the line, it&#8217;s Cowen and Lenihan.</p>
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